The M Casino Resort is located along I-15 at the southern edge of the Las Vegas valley. The location was picked expecting the Southern Highlands development to explode, but that didn’t happen. The 2007 housing bubble hurt that development big time — and this casino as well.
I live about 8-10 miles from the casino, depending on whether I take the freeway or not. I know having a casino this close would be a luxury for many of my readers, but it’s actually too far away for me. Although I do drive and will drive, I do not particularly enjoy “spinning my wheels.” I much prefer playing at closer casinos if I can find suitable ones.
To make matters worse, it’s the kind of casino where you must come in and pick up your free play multiple times over the month. Sometimes up to 10 times.
For the past seven years or so, up until the end of 2016, I had a “special deal” at that casino. This consisted of me coming in once a month and doing all my play at one time. Usually the figure was $200,000 of coin-in played on a $10 single line 8/5 Bonus Poker machine.
In exchange for this, I received all my free play for the month in one lump sum and was guaranteed to receive 2x points (worth a total of 0.60%) each time I came in. If you included the free play and the benefits of being an ICON member (their highest tier), including a certain amount of food each month, this was sufficient to entice me to play there.
Although the arrangement evolved over time, for the last few years I was unwelcome at most drawings and invitational tournaments. The reason for this was that most tournaments included “second chance drawings” where players would play during the weekend event and, based on $5,000 coin-in for one drawing ticket, tickets would be drawn to give away money. The reason for the second chance drawing was to induce extra play out of the players. I was excluded from these drawings because the $200,000 I would play wouldn’t be extra play — it would just be normal monthly play. This would give me an unfair advantage, or so the managers believed.
In late 2010, the M was sold to Penn National Gaming, effective sometime in 2011, but the former owner, Anthony Marnell III, still had a management role. So, most of the special deals that were allowed when Marnell owned the place were still in effect. Eventually Marnell moved on to other opportunities and the new General Manager was a PNG employee with no ties at all to the way the casino was run in the past.
I was informed in November 2016 that my deal was going to end on December 31. I was still welcome to play but I would receive the normal mail for an ICON player — based on how much I continued to play. I would need to pick up my free play in whatever increments the other players got their free play and would be eligible to participate in tournaments and drawings should my play warrant it. If this wasn’t acceptable, I didn’t have to play there at all.
I appealed this decision to the GM, but to no avail. It took until about the end of January to get me back on all mailing lists. I had been manually excluded by the former Vice President of Marketing (because of my special deal), and each of those manual over-rides had to be found and removed.
For March, I decided to play on Thursday, March 2, primarily because there was a drawing on Friday, March 3. I figured my equity in the drawing would help make up for the inconvenience of having to travel to the casino so many times. According to an over-sized postcard I received in the mail, so long as my tickets to the drawing were activated prior to 7 p.m., I was in the drawing. So, I played more than $200,000, at a bigger-than-average loss, and activated my entries at 6:45 p.m. Unfortunately, I was totally skunked in the drawing.
Since there were 75 names drawn and I probably had more tickets in the drum than anyone else, it was highly improbable that I didn’t get picked anywhere. A “top 10” finish was likely, I believed, with a decent shot at winning the $4,000 first prize. I didn’t think I was intentionally excluded from the drawing (although with the manual overrides the former VP of Marketing had instituted, it was possible that one forbidding me from participating in drawings was still inadvertently in effect). I thought the most likely explanation for me not being called was that they pulled the 75 names before my tickets were in the drum.
The following Tuesday I spoke to the man who was responsible for pulling the tickets the previous Friday evening. He told me he pulled them at 6:30 p.m., as he had been instructed to do. I asked him who told him to pull at 6:30 p.m., because that would be the first person I called — if I decided to follow up on this.
It was not clear that following up on this would yield good results. Using aphorisms, we can say the squeaky wheel gets the grease (which means I should definitely follow up on this), but we can also say the nail that sticks up is often hammered down (which means I should just let it go). Playing “aphorism roulette,” I decided to pursue this.
I left voicemail messages explaining what I wanted to talk about to two different Marketing Supervisors. Whether they were in town and received the messages or not, I don’t know, but they didn’t return my calls. So, I next directed a written email to Patrick Durkin, the Vice President of Marketing. I told him I didn’t want to go to the Gaming Control Board if I could avoid it, but I strongly felt I was short-changed.
He sent me a return email saying he would research the matter and get back to me by the end of the day. He did, although he said he preferred to talk face to face. We set up a meeting for the following week, but he also told me the written rules and the postcard sent in the mail had different information on it.
This was an unusual twist. The rules said to swipe before 6:30 p.m. and I didn’t read those rules until afterwards. The mailer — which included a LOT of detail including small print disclaimers — seemed to cover everything and contained what were certainly at least “pseudo rules.”
I hoped the casino wouldn’t argue that the written rules were the only relevant ones and the mailer wasn’t official. I’ve heard LOTS of strange arguments from casino employees through the years. I would just have to wait until the meeting.
I certainly didn’t know how the meeting would go. They could give me some free play. They could say “sorry Charlie.” Or they could restrict me in some minor or major way. I’ve seen variations of all of those. But I wasn’t going to get anything if I didn’t go to the meeting, so I went.
Insofar as the mailer went, I didn’t take it with me. I did, however, take an iPhone photo of both front and back and had that with me. (Years ago, some employees at the Suncoast, after it was purchased by Boyd, disputed that I had received a postcard invitation and asked to see it. I gave it to them and they took it into the back room. I never saw the postcard or them again. Since I couldn’t prove I received the postcard, the Suncoast’s official position was that I hadn’t received one. Although I didn’t think the M would operate in such a rinky dink fashion as the Suncoast, I wasn’t taking any chances.)
At the meeting with Mr. Durkin, he couldn’t have been more gracious. We chatted for 10 minutes or so — one professional to another. He had worked at several casinos over the years and I had played at many of them. We knew many of the same people. I am somewhat of a “special case” in the player community and he wanted to get to know me. He had only worked at the property for a few months and, although we had exchanged some emails and phone calls, we hadn’t met each other prior to our meeting.
When it came time to discuss whether I was going to receive any compensation for trusting the mailer, he told me the promotion had been designed by his predecessor, who now worked elsewhere. Although he and his staff checked the rules and the mailers, they missed the “6:30 vs 7:00” difference. Without admitting any error, he asked what would satisfy me. I, of course, would have preferred that he come up with a proposed amount of free play first. But at least we were finally talking turkey.
I won’t go into exactly how the negotiation to find the “right” number took place, but we came up with an amount of free play that both of us could live with. Maybe a better negotiator would have gotten more. Maybe some players would have gotten less. Being able to negotiate effectively when you have to is a player skill that is underrated.
I came away impressed with how Mr. Durkin handled this. He understood that his company had made a mistake and my grievance was legitimate — and he treated it as such. None of us can guarantee we will never make a mistake, but we can try and clean it up afterwards when we fall short. And that’s what Mr. Durkin did without giving away the store.
To my mind, the fact that I had lost a bit more than usual this time made it easier for him to award me free play. Had I hit a $40,000 royal flush and ended up considerably ahead on the play, it would have been more difficult for him to justify the additional payment to his bosses. So, you can be sure I mentioned my loss in the negotiation. Had I won during the play, he probably would have mentioned that.
While idealists can make a pretty good case that my results shouldn’t have mattered in this case, these things do matter. Thinking they don’t would be naïve.
I’ve enjoyed this column much more than usual since it covers some history about one of my favorite casinos in Clark County as an out of town visitor. It is unfortunate to hear about the changes that are taking place there recently.
From this week’s column, along with the column a few months ago regarding the Silverton, good things can happen if one goes far to disputes the integrity of a promotion they are entitled to but did not get. Not sure if it is coincidental that both settings revolved around a big losing session.
Last football season the Sugarhouse in Philadelphia had a weekly contest that the mailer said the first place prize each week was 5,000 in FREE PLAY but on the website it said 5,000 in CASH. I called the casino before the first week and asked which one it was. The woman said she would find out and call me back. She never did. Then while playing blackjack one night, I asked the pit boss if she knew about it and she did not but made a phone call and told me where to find someone who would know. When I got there, after a bizarre few minutes of having the man I spoke with deciding to give me a some totally irrelevant information, he finally said that the website was correct–$5,000 in CASH.
However, after the first week’s picking period had started but before the first week’s games, the website changed the first prize to $5,000 in FREE PLAY.
I didn’t win but, if I did, I wonder if my conversation with the man I was sent to–the one who told me cash was correct–would have been binding with casino management or the PA casino commission.
Nice article. Very informative.
I wonder if my conversation with the man I was sent to–the one who told me cash was correct–would have been binding with casino management or the PA casino commission.
“Binding” is not the right word. That implies something legal where the casino does something because it has to. The whole point of the article was you can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar.
If you politely explain to management that you got such and such information from a particular person in authority (you did get his name, didn’t you?) and you’d really prefer the way he promised, many places will honor that because it seems to be the right thing to do.
As for me, $5000 in Free Play is MUCH better than $5000 in cash, assuming I can play it on a 99% or better machine. Far less paperwork and you’re on the honor system to report it to the IRS rather than receiving a 1099 where the IRS is automatically notified.
I heard in the past that the house normally would prefer to award Free Play than a Cash equivalent simply because it forces the player to play it through once against negative expectation game. Mr. Dancer’s reasoning is an outstanding one from a player’s perspective.
Very interesting article as I am an out of state player who considers the M my home casino. I was the winner of the top prize $2000 of the 75 names drawn that first drawing of March. I was told that table game play is also included in the drawing, just make sure you swipe your card at least once a day to be entered. My problem is I have no idea how many tickets I had in the drawing. All anyone can tell me is table game play is based on your average bet and how long you play. I have asked everyone I know, ( including VP of table games) I get told the same it is based on your average bet & the time you play, which is not an answer. The poor pit supervisors, not just the managers have told me that is all the information they are given. Customer service? Since Penn National Gaming has taken over that had declined but is another case of worms. When I swipe my players card in the koisak it told me I had 15 entries from video poker play, 8 entries from slot play, table games it read $142.50. I have no idea what the amount on table games mean? It is not my average bet. I guess I owe you a thank you for not having your entries in going up against my 23+ entries. But the most important fact from this article is a name, Patrick Durkin. Perhaps, he will answer my question as to how many tickets do I earn playing table games?
Agree with Bob. I’d rather have the $5000 free play instead of $5000 cash.
You know, this is about the 900th time I’ve heard someone complain, and I don’t think the first time I’ve heard Mr. Dancer complain, that he didn’t win a prize in a drawing even though he had so many tickets in the drum (virtual or otherwise) that he felt he was entitled to win something. Don’t work that way, honeychile.
I once was in a fairly exclusive highish-roller drawing at the Palms. I had exactly two tickets in the drum. A guy next to me said he had 134 tickets. I won second and fifth prize (out of ten). He won nothing. He is probably, fifteen or so years later, STILL screaming to the heavens about the injustice of it all. I know he was not happy for me when I told him I’d been very lucky; I had only had two tickets in the drum.
Variance. It’s operative even when you feel you’ve covered all the bases. The boss should have told Bob to take a flying leap; that Bob’s assumption that because he didn’t win, there was ipso facto something wrong with the drawing, was pig doots. The fact that there might actually have been something wrong with it doesn’t make that assumption valid in hindsight. We low rollers aren’t entitled to have the boss check out every game for absolute fairness when we “should” have won but didn’t. I guess $200,000 coin-in gets you special treatment, which is completely wrong but nonetheless, part of Casino World reality.
Thanks for the followup; more excellent points.
I don’t think I was playing video poker back then and, even if I were, I doubt Sugarhouse has any 99% plus machines. The best they offer on Jacks or Better is 8/6 for $1.00 and 8/5 for less than $1. They just converted a group of video poker machines to progressives and they are only giving 7/5.
I’d still take the FP. Taxes on the cash will give you less of a return than the FP
Dear Bob,
I just want to say — thank you for taking the time to write articles for us. I certainly appreciate your dedication.
You reminded me of a story from years ago in Joliet, IL. I, as one of your students, paid attention and caught an “error” in a flier. Key words = Caesars, tier credits, reward credits. You will understand the distinction and the importance of 2X on the credits. ( This is before Caesars offered bonus tier credits when you reach a certain number of reward credits.) I WORKED every year to achieve Seven Stars status. 2X tier points was important!
I am a bit shy and approaching an executive to ask for an explanation was a challenge for me. No one else had reported the “error”. They actually honored the words on my oversized post card and credited my account the delightful tier points. Success.
I am still a Seven Stars player at Caesars. (They make it more difficult every year!) I look for you every time I play at the Palms. (Not that often.) I hope I would get over my shyness once again to approach you to say, “Thanks. You have been an awesome tutor for me. I have done well playing for over 12 years now.”
Kevin
You need to read and re-read the entire article again. You’re not getting Bob’s issue.
Those “drawings’ with tickets in an actual drum,”carny style” are still being used? The casinos should be using the players card for the actual drawings. 10 points or ten slips of paper. They can use an R.N.G to pick the winners.
For instance,the computer that holds the player’s cards numbers,can randomly pick a number from 1 to ZERO and the players card that ENDS in that picked number is eligible for the prize(s).
That’s a random way to pick a winner,isn’t it? If the number picked is NOT the last number on your card,you have NO chance of winning,no matter how many slips of paper you put into that electronic drum.
That’s exactly how sweepstakes winners are chosen for the entries to be randomly drawn.
There are ,let’s say,100 mail bags in the sweepstakes drawing room. The R.N.G. or an employee of the sweepstakes official “picker”,choose the potential bag of mail from 100 choices from an actual drum with 1 to 100 as the numbers contained. IF the number 34 was drawn(witnessed and verified) that IS the mail bag that the winning entries are chosen from .
I have won multiple sweepstakes that require a 3 X 5″ card OR post card with your name and address and the words” I like Life Savers” or whatever. Yes,I won a year’s supply of Life Savers candy. 365 rolls.
(It wasn’t a leap year).
*****************Trade Secret**************************
My point: If there is a real/actual drum that the winners are chosen from,try the “Knight Fold”.
Works with paper or”tickets”.
Fold the 2 opposite corners TOWARDS each other about 90*. Fold the other 2 corners the other way.
It increases the chance that your ticket will be drawn by at least 10 times. The tickets tend to float in the drum and physically take up more space than an unfolded ticket.
You may be surprised at how “lucky” you are.
This is a trade secret that I learned when I was entering a shit-ton of random drawing sweepstakes.
I had a subscription to The Sweepstakes Newsletter for 2 years,when I was unemployed.
I won a ’14 Coleman canoe,7 cameras and a lot more. My best one was a trip to Hawaii and $10,000 in cash by the Brown and Williamson tobacco company. I used the “Knight Fold” in all that I entered. Envelopes or 3 X 5″ cards.
Unfair advantage? Not at all. Read the rules,as always.
This “edge” has to increase your chances at least 10 fold,Bob.