After a session playing with rookies, I like to ask, “What did you think of those dealers?” or “Who was your favorite employee?” Heat management is one of the most important aspects of the game, and sizing up the personnel is the key to heat management. “Bullet” and I tend to have identical assessments of the personnel, but the rookies often reach different conclusions. Rookies don’t realize that some of the apparently friendly interaction is nothing more than incessant toke hustling, and that grates on veterans, even those who are generous tokers (which Bullet certainly is, and I’m far from the cheapest myself).It occurs to me that some of the hustling goes unnoticed, because the rookies just don’t have a normal frame of reference, and they are too overwhelmed with other things to notice some of the tells of dealer toke hustling. If you’re new to the game, study these tells and then look for them in some of your regular dealers. We’ll start with the beginning of the “social” interaction and proceed through to the end.
When you first arrive at the table, or the dealer does, does she ask, “How’s it going? Any luck?” Seems innocent enough, but it’s really just the start of her process of establishing toke expectations. She will apply the lesser of two standards: (1) Are you winning for the day, or the trip, or (2) If losing, did you recover some of your loss during her time at the table? If the answer to either question is Yes, then she will expect tokes, lots and lots of tokes.
Since this stage is all about managing expectations, you have to tell her that you’re still chasing your losses, if not for this sitting, then for the trip. Some dealers will then get specific, especially if you have your chips neatly arranged in even stacks the way some card counters do, by asking exactly how much you’re in (buy-in), or how much you’re down. While some rookies take this as a supportive gesture indicating that the dealer is emotionally involved in the quest to get even, in reality this is nothing more than the dealer’s attempt to determine exactly when your “I’m-trying-to-get-even” excuse will be void, at which point she will expect tips immediately, if not slightly before you actually get even. So, you should keep some of your stacks messy, not give a precise number (tell her you’re down “a few thousand”), and go south with chips constantly, so that your chase is never-ending.
When you buy in, the toke hustler will begin the process of maintaining your inventory of toke chips. She will give you a bunch of white chips, pretending she’s giving them to you to play the bonus bet, which most players do, but the bonus is just giving her the perfect rationalization to do what she wanted to do, which is to give you white chips when you buy in. She considers those chips to be dual purpose—they are primarily for toking, but you could bet the bonus with them, too.
Also, bonus bets go hand in hand with toke expectations. Many dealers will “politely” remind you to bet the bonus, and exhort you to bet the Pair Plus in Three Card Poker, the Trips in Ultimate Texas Hold’em, the Aces Up in Four Card Poker, and so on. The reason they jam those bets down your throat is that those high-odds payoffs will generate tokes. Every Straight on the Pair Plus is a tokable event. Indeed, the “customary” toke is any Straight, and a good toker will toke on Flushes, and any other kind of lucky hand (like beating a Q73 with a Q74), or streak of hands, or any winning hand on a day ending in “y”! They don’t like the grinding up style of APs who win a lot by making large wagers and receiving even-odds payoffs.
As you win, the hustler will try to pay you off to maintain your toke inventory. If you’ve been betting red while toking white, watch what happens when you run out of white. Without asking, the hustler will pay your $10 Ante with a red chip and five white chips. It’s even more egregious when a black and purple bettor is paid $500 including $50 in red, or even worse, with four black and four green. Rookies are pretty oblivious to what the standard breakdown should be on various buy-in and payoff amounts.
A great test is to see what happens when you bet $20, with a $1 toke, with no visible chips left, and then color down one green chip in order to double down. The hustler will give you four red and five white, and might even place the double down chips for you, even the extra white one. Obviously Miss Manners would say that the polite dealer procedure is to color down the quarter down to five red, push them to the player, and then allow the player to color one of those red down to white. You will even notice a polite dealer hesitate ever so slightly after she grabs four red from the rack, realizing that giving you five red is the polite thing to do, though she wants to give you some white. I once had a quarter bet and $1 toke at Circus Circus, and the dealer called out “Doubling for less!” when I put down an extra quarter to double down without the accompanying white chip to double down for the dealer.
The Pause. After you win a big hand or split and double down, the hustler will hesitate slightly before dealing the next hand. She is waiting for you to put up a toke bet. If she gets called out on it (for instance, if you give her that look like, “What are you waiting for?”), then she will pass it off that she wanted to make sure your bets were set, because it looked like you were adjusting them, and we wouldn’t want to mess up the mo-jo by screwing up the bets.
Over the course of play, some dealers will give you advice on playing a hand, making a bonus bet, or making a change in bet size (usually encouragement to bet more). This is the free-roll hustle. If the advice doesn’t work out, she’ll make an excuse or say nothing. The incident will be forgotten. If you win, she will now remind you ’til the end of time how her advice made you some extra money. So try to avoid dealer advice, or control it yourself by asking for it only when it suits your needs. Don’t let the dealer shake the dice in pai gow; you’ll get hustled if she shakes you a winner.
After all that, watch out for the “sudden, inexplicable” grumpiness that sets in late in a session. I use the quotation marks only for the rookies, to whom the mood shift is bizarre. As you gain experience watching for the tells, you’ll be surprised how often the grumpiness is simply the expression of disappointment when you failed to meet toke expectations after winning a big hand or reaching a certain win level.
Try not to cave in to any of this toke hustling. If you give a begging dog food at the dinner table, what happens next time? As with dogs, the problem is that even if you employ rigid discipline, your kids or spouse might sneak the dog some food from the dinner table, so the dog’s begging behavior is reinforced. Of course, the behavior is a bit more tolerable if the dog is cute.
I cringe when leaving any table game, (pursuant to a win),
having to hear a dealer (sarcastically / sardonically) chirping:
“Thank you for playing.”
A certain dealer we know fits every one of these descriptions PERFECTLY! Especially the, “I have a good feeling about this one, you should bet more on (such and such) side bet.” The worst tip whore we’ve ever encountered.
I enjoy your writing style and subject matter a lot. Thank you.
I won a blackjack session a week ago netting $15000. As I got up to cash out my chips and the dealer started swearing at me calling me all sorts of nasty names. I just stared at her like a deer in the headlights and responded are we having a bad day! I love how dealers take no responsibility when you lose hands saying I only deal the cards its not my fault but then demand a portion of your winnings when things go well saying hey I dealt you those cards where’s my tip oh and thanks for playing.
When buying in, asking for all green, and being handed some red/white, my favorite move is simply to bet the small chips on my first bet.
That sets the tone.
I recall winning $850 recently. My EV was about $50-$75 for a very short session of card counting. I tipped a generous $5 and got a look of incredulity. I should have just left grumbling that I was still down thousands from ‘before’.
Obviously, you have a deep antipathy toward dealers because they represent the “enemy.” Actually, what you call toke hustling may simply be the dealer complying with the casino’s instructions to be friendly. Or–horror of horrors!–the dealer may just be a friendly person, or is trying to make a long shift seem shorter by–God forfend!–talking to people. I’m sure that if the dealer just stood there and dealt, not interacting with the players at all, you APs would leave the table muttering, “What a stone-faced bitch!”
In any event, the dealer should be tipped regardless of results, as in, according to the level of service rendered. If you mentally subtract your tips from your net win/loss results, you’re going about it the wrong way. You are not obligated to tip; therefore, if you do, it’s a decision to spend money that lies outside the realm of your play, just as having a hamburger in the coffee shop would be. You’re dead wrong that dealers ever “expect” tokes under any circumstances. Why not? We’ve been stiffed the vast majority of the time, day after day, year after year. A tip of more than a dollar is always a surprise. And these same people think nothing of tipping a waitress $10, even though our interaction with them is much longer (and more stressful) than hers.
This hate-filled diatribe of yours is a misdirected swipe at people who are paid minimum wage–functionally, less than that–and if they don’t earn tips, they don’t make enough to live on. They know how it works–that people feel more generous after a big win. So you can label any attempt by them to solicit tips as “hustling” and demean them by comparing them to begging dogs–but that isn’t accurate or fair. It sure is the mark of a douchebag, though. Dealing to you or others like you, back in the day, I would dance a little jig when some AP/stiff busted out minus $2500. And when they WON $2500 and toked me $5, I’d refuse it with a smile, saying, “Your bankroll needs this more than I do.” Begging dog that I am. May I pee on your leg?
Dealers aren’t the enemy, but your hostility will surely make them so.
Why not just get up and move over a table or 2? Is it worth the effort if they will let you count without heat?
Thank the Gods of gambling that they at least gave some AP empathy. I’m sure all these Donald Trump whines are the first to complain when they don’t get an old style Horseshoe “open comp” like they did when downtown was “mobbed up”.
Now they have to whine to a computer to get a cheeseburger rather than greasing up a pit boss for a fifty dollar New York strip. Well not to worry buffalo squeezers I sure when you ask greedy cocktail servers who are probably doing to their best to support their family that they will be thrilled to bring you some extra cheese to go with that whine. I mean they are the takers not the real gamblers and not turning cartwheels because you toked them a buck.
Btw I’m not saying this but somebody told me that they would spit in whatever they brought you. How ungrateful.
Thanks KL I wasn’t going to comment but you inspired me and AC you f’ing disappointed me.
Why? If a customer asks for something that’s within the rules and his rights, why shouldn’t he be perturbed when he gets something else per someone else’s agenda?
What do dealers in the USA do more than a dealer in Australia (who don’t receive tips)?
Why is it the responsibility of the player to pay you a wage? Do you tip at Walmart? Do you tip at McDonalds? Why not, they only make minimum wage.
Tipping has created some perverse incentives where educated people have taken or remained in menial jobs because of the enormous income derived from the job and thus have not pursued other avenues which would be more of a benefit to them and the rest of civilization. How do I know this? Because I’m one of them.
If you understand EV, tips should be based on EV, not actual results. I actually tip even after a loss if the service merits it.
As a dealer, there is a “soft hustle” for tokes. It is part of our job and the majority of our income. Most dealers (in the U S at least) do not make minimum wage. We make the same or sometimes less than waitresses. True, the waitress always gives you what you want while dealers cant always give you that blackjack when you want it, its more about the service than the product. When you go to dinner and order your steak rare, comes out medium, do you stiff the waitress because of the chefs mistake? On the other side, as a poker player, I understand tipping is an expense, same as gas to get to the casino. Im not saying tip every dealer, especially if they are rude or unhelpful. Base it on service, a couple dollars here and there can actually save you hundreds. I’ve had non tippers hit on a hand they meant to stay on, and when I call the floor over, I tell them they gave the signal, they got the card, sorry sir, your $50 bet is a loss. Same situation with a tipper (even minimal, $1 here and there), I call the floor over and explain how I was too quick and made a mistake. Here’s your $50 back sir, and you’re still in the hand to win.
ROTFLMFAO
He shouldn’t be “perturbed” when he treats a service employee like dirt (and like JG, considers him/her to be a begging dog) and then receives bad service. And an AP super duper genius stellar orgasmic pro like JG or AC going off on dealers is like a VP pro swearing at and pounding on a machine. If you want to bet more than the dealer makes in a week on a single hand, the dealer won’t be all that sympathetic if you lose. She might be wondering if she can pay the phone bill this week and is hoping to get enough tokes to do that, and you’re scowling at her and calling her a dog (mentally, if not out loud) when she smiles at you, because that makes her a no-good slimy toke hustler.
You may objectively have the right to good customer service no matter what, but when you exude contempt for an employee, don’t expect to get it. It’s just the way the world works.
I am disappointed with the piss poor hospitality that I received from the house not too long ago. An industry leader… I think not.
Going to a casino as a customer your going to have to deal with house employees from different departments, they all failed in service.
The first thing that pissed me off was when I said, “Give me a $20 6. Dealer said, “Can’t do that.” I repeat myself. Dealers says, “Can’t do that.” By this time I’m thinking this dealer is a fucking prick. I repeat myself only to have the dealer inform me that he will do it for $18. It should be that the player can bet whatever the hell he wants to bet, not what the dealer wants the player to bet! Anyways I hit my 6, take my money and did NOT tip the dealer as I left the table. On another note I told a number of players at the table that the house is the adversary and enemy when you play against them. The dealer that I was sitting next to didn’t like it when they heard such words come out of my mouth. We made eye contact and the dealer quickly tried to change the subject to my amusement.
The next thing that pissed me off is that the clerk at the buffet line LIED to me and said I had not points for a discount when I know for damn sure I had points on my card that I wanted to redeem and use! I asked her to double check it because I knew she was full of shit and the employee lied to the customer. Piss poor service! Try better next time to impress the customer!
Another interaction that pissed me off the most with a house employee was when I was simply trying to get a drink to quench my thirst. The house cannot even get serving a drink to the customer right. A simple task. Before I could get this drink this house employee had his head up his ass not taking care of the customers, he was bullshitting around and talking with other house employees being lazy. I proceed to hand this lazy employee some cash and ask him for change. He then takes my money, fixes a drink which must have taken a minute or so by that point, sets the money on the counter near the wall and then proceeds to bullshit around and flap his gums with other house employees. I get pissed off and shout at the bartender to gain his dulled attention span. He gives me a look of wtf do you want. I say to him, “Can I get my change!” He gives me my change and I tip the asshole! I hate it when a house employee tries to extort you like that. That pisses customers off! You house employees need to fix your attitudes and act more professional.
The casinos performance on hospitality was absolute shit on my last outing. I expect better treatment! Better service! I hate piss poor service when I go to the casino!
Because of such a poor performance and let downs in many areas of the casinos operation I took a momento to remember such an occasion.
TBF. We are all hustling really.
AP’s and Dealers are both trying to socially manipulate situations to benefit themselves.
Played a great HC game on a cruise ship recently but most of my hustle was manipulating the staff so I could run as much money as I could through my on board account.
Even while on vacation I can’t resist a hustle.
I know what I am.
D.
Greetings from Asia.
Gambling culture is much different here. No need to tip over here. Generally much less heat. But games also more well protected and lesser loophole to exploit.
I like your blog. Find the articles very interesting and informative. But at the same time from the tone of your writing etc, cant help but feel that you have an agenda towards the casinos in general. Just feel that you dislike the gaming industry and recreational gamblers
Interesting topic. The “begging dog” thing might appear to be demeaning but I have an exact story that highlights the issue. Was playing with a dealer I had played with a bunch in the past, usually very friendly and she is usually tipped accordingly, for the good service, quick dealing to boot (let’s not forget how speed is critical and quite honestly much more impactful to hourly rate than service). I was down a bunch, she deals for a couple minutes, gets all pissed at a dumbass customer and the floor excuses her for about 45 mins. I win a bit in her absence (tipped a small amount) and she comes back twice as pissy (no doubt from her conversation from floor). She then proceeds to rat out two customers that were playing on one hand, and to whom she dealt prior without issue. After that, she goes to work on me, saying I “need” to tip her because I won, when she wasn’t even dealing the cards. She then talks directly to the customers, saying how I usually take care of her and she can’t believe I’m not tipping her. To my great satisfaction I have a tremendous shuffle and stiff her entirely, when otherwise she would have done well for herself. Begging dog….as demeaning as it sounds, she’s worse. A decent dog at least wouldn’t dare to growl if they didn’t receive tidbits they thought they deserved…
There’s one store that I play at that’s just like that. I watch my tipping at this store even more now. Insolent and entitled behavior gets what it deserves in return. Good and friendly service gets tips at a level that the CUSTOMER is comfortable with. People in the service industry forget that tips are hopefully earned and not a right. What is with lumping the good service industry employees together with the bad ones?? They are not the same and therefore do not deserve the same from the general public.
Unfortunately the store I was referring to is well known and their employees are doing a wonderful job watering down a legendary name. There are many good employees but there are always a few bad apples amongst the bunch. When you get too many bad ones, that’s not good.
I would have given the dealer the bird as a friendly gesture.
So you don’t think they are serious or you just think that a lot of them are only worried about how much money they make?
So you don’t believe in tipping?
Ive AP’ed in lots of different countries as well as most of the USA. The tipping problem is really a USA only thing its totally out of control.
A terrible toxic culture has developed where mega corporations under pay their staff and then expect them to hustle the customers for the money they need to survive.
The most outrageous USA thing is the belief that the tip should be a percentage of what the customer just won. Or even worse a percentage of what he bought in for. The dealer is providing a service (dealing cards) its not a particularly skilled job. A fair reward from a customer who thought they were doing a good job should reasonably be a few dollars per hour. Instead a horrible culture of socially shaming people as “Cheap Skates” who dont tip hundreds of dollars per hour has developed. Theres no middle ground with these people and their tipping expectations are so unreasonable that I often find myself just not tipping at all because the amount I would like to tip is seen as socially unacceptable.
I was recently in a blackjack game in Europe where I won 4000 euro I decided to tip 10 euro at the end of the session because the dealer was nice to me. Everyone was happy with that. In the same situation in the USA Ive often just walked off saying nothing while abused is hurled at me from the pit because $10 is considered insulting and Im not giving them $100 for dealing cards.
The horrible USA staff also have very short memories. They are literally like a dog with a treat. They forget all previous tips you may have made and just focus on socially shaming you into giving the next treat.
A crazy myth has developed among players that tipping the dealer is like a bribe that will help you win. As if the dealer somehow chooses to them win in exchange for that $10 tip instead of inviting her mother to play in seat one and allowing her to win enough money to retire.
The other players can be just as bad as the dealer in putting pressure on me to tip. Fat middle aged women are the worst for enforcing what they see as polite social protocol. Ive never seen any of them out in the parking lot yelling at the CEO of MGM corp as he gets into his Maserati. “Your a dirty cheap sake for paying your dealers $7 per hour while you fleece your customers for Millions”
Ive experimented around with different tipping policies on some of my past USA trips but I can honestly say its never made any difference to my win rate and is always quickly forgotten. Its coming to the point where on my next trip I might just implement a no tipping policy and just put up with the abuse.
Does anybody else have any thoughts on this ?
Here is a my recent story about the potential value of tipping generously in certain situations.
Poolside, strip property, $25 single deck game with the customary “no mid-deck entry” sign. I was at the pool with a large group of friends, most of which were not gambling – just hanging out enjoying a few drinks and the scenery.
I sit down with one of my friends, play the first deck or two and tip rather generously when I win. For the third and subsequent decks, because I was chatting & socializing with all my pals, I “forgot” to put a bet out when the count was poor. A couple hands later, with more favorable conditions, I naively slid a bigger bet out and asked “Sorry I got caught up in the conversation – is this bet OK?”. Surprisingly, she said no problem.
I managed to play a few more decks this way and she continued to let me sit out (because my friends chatter is SO interesting) in negative counts and then “remember” to jump back in with a big bet (to make up for missing a few hands) when the count was favorable.
Am I sure that tipping was the reason she let this happen? No, but I like to think it probably played a role.
If I’m having a good time at the table,win or lose,I will tip for the dealer(s).
The people at the table dictate a good time,not so much the dealers attitude.
Friendly dealers I enjoy and most people are a pretty good judge of character and they can see “toke hustling” ploys.
I like it when the dealer thanks me for the tokes,anyway.
I’m surprised at the attitudes of some dealers. Cranky,complaining and a general downer.
They don’t get many tips,but……
The TIPS ARE POOLED is most places,anyway.
Great read here. As a table games dealer we are strictly forbidden to hustle for tokes; it can cost us our job. But does it still happen, yes. Good dealers know how to hustle, without it being know to the player they are hustling. Take a look at my blog talking a little bit about this subject. http://trevorjsmith702.weebly.com/blog
To the dealer who purposely hits a hand when the player meant to stand…. You are a POS. You are OWED nothing, Tipping is ENTIRELY voluntary. However, the player is most assuredly owed an honest game.
Another example of toke hustling…
I play VP and will often (but not often enough) have one or more tickets to cash that add up to a fairly decent sum and are too big for the machine (or the machine spits out 20’s no matter what).
I would say at least a third of the time I do this, some troll says “Nice win” or something similar. Of course, this moron does not even know how much I put in. I really detest this particular hustle and if I happen to be stuck a couple grand for the day, I REALLY hate it.
As for tipping in the casino in general….I see no reason to do so unless it is a place I play OFTEN, make good money, and figure the investment might prevent employees from whining about me. In fact, some employees even realize who is winning and could report me to their boss as revenge for failing to provide the tips they are so sure they are entitled to. But otherwise, it offers nothing to me and it simply isn’t my obligation to pay them. Casinos make millions and then expect me to offset their employee costs….NFW. If they want a tip from me, they have to find a way to give me something in return, but just how can they do that without breaking the law (and risking far too much for both of us) is not at all clear to me.
I’m just going to leave this one right here for all you who whine about tipping……
TIPPING IS EXPECTED in any service industry, including gambling. You tip a server for bringing you food and drinks, at least 18%, even though the actual amount of time spent serving you was maybe 10 minutes out of 1 hour say. If a dealer deals to you for a full hour, you should technically tip 6 times more than you would a server, based on the amount of money you spend / buy in. Now if you win on top of it, you should add an additional 10% of your winnings to that tip. Especially if you win a big jackpot like say 10,000 or more (a 500,000 payout DOES require a 50,000 TIP). Again, you should never go to a casino with the expectation of winning, you go there to spend money, just as you would going out to dinner, you pay for the interaction and the entertaining. PERIOD. Blackjack dealers don’t get paid more than minimum wage, if that, just like servers. Although it may not seem like much to you, they actually work very hard to listed to your whining (6 players / table, 15 tables / night…that’s a lot of whining that requires therapy after) while at the same time trying to entertain you. On top of that, a lot of players straight up curse the dealers out. Do you not think you’d be mentally f***ed up if that many people told you on a daily basis how much you suck? Truth is, MOST players are not nice and it takes a lot to be able to deal with all your whining. Also, next time you are in a casino, look at all the repetitive motions these dealers do, like bending over tables with every hand they deal and twisting their wrists and hips. All that requires physical therapy weekly and even with that most dealers end up with life long health issues. So tell me again how hard does a dealer work and why shouldn’t you tip them? It’s constantly serving you, unlike a food server. I promise you, this right here is exactly what every dealer wants to say but can’t. The very few nice players make it all worth it in the end, and they DO talk about you and make fun of your whining during breaks. So put on your big boy pants and TIP a dealer, STOP BEING STINGY AND ANGRY, they don’t care. PERIOD.
90% of tips come from 5% of players. You DB’s are the 19 out of 20….
Dealers sometimes only make $4.50 an hour. Being a dealer is considered a skilled profession, so they do expect to receive a tip, but not to the point of swearing at players. Most dealers just won’t get excited, and your time there will be dull if you refuse to tip. The pit boss will send in the cooler as well, because they get a portion of the tips sometimes. Remember that.
I have settled the tipping issue for myself. When I play blackjack, I tip the dealer a $1 chip each time I receive a winning blackjack (maximum of 5 per session). If I have won a lot, and I realize that this is subjective, by the end of the session, I will tip an additional $5 to $10. Dealers seem to appreciate this method because, although they are not being tipped a lot, they are being tipped consistently.